摄影：朱瑞
根据录音整理：Dechen Pemba （英文） 朱瑞（英译汉）
六百多万藏人，目前，在西藏境内面临着前所未有的恐惧。如果这种恐惧能够利于其他人，比如，我们的汉族兄弟姐妹，从某个角度说，是可以忍受的，是舍己为人。
自去年三月起，中国政府对藏人和平示威游行的单一宣传，曾引起汉人最初的过于情绪化的反应；但是，当事实越来越清楚、开始听到西藏的真实状况时，很多汉人为此感到羞愧，和我见面时，也表达了他们内心的歉意。
中国是一个古老的，庄严的国家，正在变得越来越重要，终会成为一个超级大国。当然，中国应当得到这些：人口居于世界之首，民众勤劳勇敢，历史悠久，这都是为了获得世界的尊重，成为一个超级大国的必要条件。看看前苏联，曾经多么强大，拥有核武器，差不多已成了一个超级大国。但是，它的强大，给这个世界带来的是恐惧。不是吗？冷战时期，我几次到东、西德的边境，有一次，还在那里住了一个晚上，我也和当地人一样，感到了恐惧。我希望，包括所有的中国人在内，都要清晰：强大，应该给百姓带来的是和平、幸福、快乐，而不是暴力、恐惧、烦恼！所以，中华人民共和国的对藏政策，到了应该被认真审视的时候了。
因为经济的原因，今天，很多国家正在缓和与中国的关系，甚至讨好中国，这是一种假象。中国，还是一个根深蒂固的极权国家，没有言论自由、思想自由、宗教信仰自由，是不该被认可的。他们在展示好的一面的同时，也藏起了许多令人恐惧的东西。如今的中国所赢得的世人的尊重和友好，是内心的还虚假的？我想，中国公众也清楚。我明确地感到，西藏问题，还有仁波切提到的新疆问题，都与所有中国民众的未来息息相关。
回到祖国，一方面是好的；另一方面我也感到不那么舒服，首先是恐惧，还有千变万化的整个社会形势。是的，我看到了笑容，但笑容的后面是什么？当然，有关“一个中国”的想法是好的，但同时，我们的内心深处也充满了恐惧。我在异乡印度度过了整整50年的流亡生涯，官员们和一些印度商人，听到这个信息，虽然微笑了，不过微笑的背后，也产生一些好意的怀疑和疏远。不是因为中国人有问题，而是那个制度的毛病；本质上的马克思主义社会体系，以及写进宪法的关于少数民族区域自治法，会真正被实施吗？
最近，我见到一些中国学生，在他们看来，中国正在走向完善，发展经济比政治自由还重要。他们认为，在这种环境下，一个中央集权的政府可能会更好。我告诉他们，看看印度，人口超过10亿，东部、北部、南部、西部，不同的文字，不同的语言。有时候，南部印度人，拒绝学习北印度语，有的甚至拒绝印度国歌。但总体上，这是一个真正的联盟，因为它是一个民主国家，有言论自由，司法独立。
所以，无论印度军队在这里还是那里，公众都从没有恐惧。有时，当地的印度穷人甚至要求参军，成为一个印度士兵，或者印度警察。这是真正的自由，内心没有恐惧。我们是人，伟大的中国人也是人，是勤劳勇敢的人。但中国的传统是服从当权者，即使有时候当权者的话是错误的，人们仍然习惯地说：是、是、是。这是不对的！有一回Jonathan Mirsky问我，为什么中国政府这么挑剔你？这是很多年前的事了，80年代吧，我说因为我不喜欢说“是的，大人！”
中国人，我想，也渴望享有言论、思想自由。过去的60年里，如果中国人有机会发挥自己的创造力，我认为中国在科学和技术领域会得到更大的发展。中央极权制就意味着扼杀个人的创造性的思维，因此，西藏问题与中华人民共和国的长远利益是一致的。
一些中国兄弟姐妹表示他们希望西藏人最终可以在中国获得更多的自由。但西藏目前的状况，还有新疆，蒙古人（可能数量较少），都处于危机之中，我们不能只看表面，要深层地认识这个问题的本质，正如我前面说的，这是一个危机，影响到中国未来的发展。
现在，中国的高层领导只关注如何握住政权，而不是中国民众的利益，这是很不幸的。当然，政府是政府，民众是民众。去年，西藏事件发生之后，我公开对西方说，我对中国这个共产主义政权的信心越来越小了，但是，对中国民众的信心不会动摇。从那时开始，我每到一个地方，都尽量与中国的兄弟姐妹会面，主要是知识分子。现在，我们在这里会面，你们可能对中国政府没有太大的影响力，不过，已经有些迹象表明，这次会议引起了一些抗议，认为这是反对中国共产党，或是噶夏政府的阴谋，我认为这是过于消极了。我想，我们在这次会议中应该展开讨论，首先在中国的知识分子中间创造积极的气氛，最终延伸到中国的民众中间；其次寻找我们的共同点，我们应该承担更多的责任。我等待着听到你们更多的建议，包括一些建设性的批评，都是非常必要的。
正如桑东仁波切提到，尽管我们碰到了挫折，但只要中国政府传达出信息，我们就准备继续对话。所以我们非常欢迎提出批评，拿出一些新的想法和建议，这是这次会议的主要目的。我明天就要离开，我期待着听到这三天会议讨论的结果和一些具体的想法。
我们正经历着一个困难时期。作为人类的一员，我们应该把遇到的因难和挑战，看作一件好事。越是挑战，就越有机会展现我们内在的力量，宽容、智慧。我也是一个人，没有特别之处。在过去的60年里，有很多的挑战，不安全感，当然，也出现了焦虑，但一般来说，挑战越大，信心就越大，也就越需要坚持。最近我见到一些来自西藏境内的藏人，他们表达了同样的心情，也就是困难越大，他们的决心也就越坚定，精神上就更加矢志不渝。所以，这里有一个潜在的力量，我们必须显示出我们的决心，做出更大的努力。一个西藏人说，9次努力，9次失败。这是我们的第一次会议，一个失败过去了，接下来，又有一个失败过去了，然后，又通过了一个……（笑）。在天安门事件发生不久，一些年轻的中国人，还有一些其它民族的人，承受了很大的压力。我对他们说，我们是难民，已经30年了，有了一些经验，最重要的是保持我们的决心和继续努力。期望有些事情马上发生，是不现实的。这就是我想和你们分享的，尽管有困难或者障碍，但是我们要有坚定的决心去面对它，为了一个正义的事业，为了广大公众的利益，这是神圣的、伟大的！所以，不能灰心，请坚持下去。
Around six million people live in Tibet and I think they are facing a constant threat. If others, such as our Chinese brothers and sisters are gaining benefit from this, then from one point of view it’s ok, a kind of sacrifice.
The initial reaction of Chinese people is usually of too much emotion based on the Chinese government propaganda last year about Tibet. Usually though, things become clear and when Chinese people hear about the true situation in Tibet, it makes them feel really uncomfortable. Many have come to see me to express an apology.
And more importantly, when you think about China, it is an ancient nation, dignified, gaining more importance. Eventually it should become a superpower, it deserves this as it’s a most populous nation and the people are very hard working, with a long history. In order to become a super power and to gain respect from the rest of the world and trust, it’s very essential. Look at the Soviet Union, it had a lot of power, even nuclear power and almost became a super power but that super power brings more fear. Isn’t it? During the Cold War I had a few occasions to visit the German border with East Germany and once I spent one night in that area. At this time I also shared the fear of the local people! Fear! So I wish, and all the Chinese people too I think…that super power must ……
So therefore, the People’s Republic of China’s policy regarding Tibet
Today, many nations you can see are offering appeasement and praising China because of the economy. You see this is actually hypocrisy! Deep inside it is still a totalitarian system with no freedom of speech, no freedom of thought, no freedom of religious belief, that’s not acceptable. In the meantime they also hide these things and then show them some positive signs so I think this is hypocrisy. I think Chinese people also know that respect and friendship from the rest of the world …… is much better
So therefore I really feel that the Tibetan issue and also, as Rinpoche mentioned, the Xinjiang issue, these things I think are things very much to do with the future of all the people in China. On the one hand, returning to the Motherland is good but on the other hand also I feel there is something uncomfortable, some fear, uncertainty. Yes, I see some smiles there but what is behind there (!) Of course, this one China idea is good but at the same time, deep inside there is a lot of fear. And then again I spent 50 years in India. The officials and some Indian businessmen they give a smile but underneath there is some kind of suspicion, distance. Not because the Chinese people are bad, no, it’s the system. I think the general Marxist socialist system and regarding minorities are written in the constitution and their autonomy laws are really carried sincerely. Recently I met some Chinese students, their view is that in China there is still a lot of work to do so for them, the development of the economy is more important than political freedom. So they said that under these circumstances maybe a centralized system of government is better. I told them to look at India, over a billion population, look at east India, north, south, west, different scripts, and different languages. In some cases, people in south India refuse to learn Hindi. Some even refuse the Indian national anthem. But in all, it’s a genuine union because it’s a democracy, freedom of speech, independent judiciary.
So when Indian military convoys go here and there, the public never show fear. Sometimes the local poor Indians even say that they want to join the army, become an Indian soldier, and Indian police also. So this is real freedom, no rule of fear. We are human beings; the great Chinese people also are human beings, hard working people. I think it’s the Chinese tradition is to obey leadership. Even if they say something wrong they still say yes yes yes yes, I think this is wrong. One time Jonathan Mirsky asked me why is the Chinese government so critical of you? This was many years ago in the 1980s. I said it’s because I am not acting like “yes, Minister”.
So the Chinese people also, I think they enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of thought. I think in the last 60 years, if the Chinese people had the opportunity to utilize ones own creative nature, I think China may have developed more advanced in the science field and the technological field. Centralized means not letting people individuals think creatively. So therefore the Tibetan issue from the viewpoint of all is in the interests of the long future of the People’s Republic of China.
Some Chinese brothers and sisters actually expressed their wish that Tibetans eventually can have more freedom in China. Anyway the present situation with Tibet, and also with Xinjiang as well, and I also I think with many Mongolians although it may be a smaller number, is in crisis and there’s no room to carry on superficially. I think this is something very important? Why? As I mentioned earlier, there is a crisis. The implications of that crisis affect the future of China. So now unfortunately, among the top leadership, there is the interest of how to hold power and not how to act in the interest of all of China. That’s unfortunate. However, government is government, people is people. Since last year’s crisis I openly told the west that our faith in the government, the Communist government is growing thinner and thinner but our faith in the Chinese people is never shaken. So since then in every location I try to meet Chinese brothers and sisters, mainly intellectuals. Now all those we are meeting, they may not have much influence with the Chinese government. And in the worst case there are already some signs that this meeting has caused some movement of protest from the Chinese, as being opposed to the Communist Party or in any case some kind of conspiracy from the Kashag, I think they look negatively. But I think that we should at this meeting we should discuss and firstly create a positive atmosphere amongst Chinese intellectuals and eventually the Chinese people and secondly find our mutual ground. We should become more responsible and I’d like to hear more suggestions about what we should do to solve this problem. So I’m waiting to hear some ideas and suggestions. Including some constructive criticism, this is very essential.
As Professor Samdhong Rinpoche mentioned, despite the setbacks, we are ready, as soon as some signal comes from the Chinese government, to continue the dialogue. So criticism, new ideas and suggestions are most welcome. So this is the main purpose of the meeting. And although I am leaving tomorrow I am looking forward to hear the results of your discussions for three days and am looking forward to some concrete ideas, whether we implement them now or not it doesn't matter but some concrete ideas.
So we are passing through a difficult period. So I think basically as we are human beings, one good thing is that if there are more difficulties and challenges, we should not see this as something bad. More challenges is the best opportunity to show inner strength, mainly intelligence and wisdom. I’m just another human being, nothing special. In the last sixty years, a lot of challenges, insecurities, of course a little anxiety but generally more challenges, more determination. And recently I met some Tibetans from Tibet, they expressed the same things. Things become more difficult but their determination, their spirit becomes more firm. So I think there is potential, we have to show determination and make more effort. Then there is the Tibetan saying, nine times fail, nine times effort. So we had the first meeting but then one more passed, then one more passed (laughs). Sometimes some young Chinese and sometimes other nationalities, just after Tiananmen, very fresh, at that time there was great pressure. I told them we are refugees so we have already 30 years more experience. It’s important to keep up our determination and continue the effort. I told them it’s unrealistic to expect something to happen soon.
That is what I want to share with you, in spite of difficulties or obstacles, our determination, for a just cause and for the larger benefit to larger number of people; it’s something very sacred so please keep.
完稿于2009年8月20日
——首发
没有评论:
发表评论